Cause CSM is useless like a peen on the pope.

Yes, i quit WoW for pretty much the same reasons.
I also like hardcore, i do like it very much.
And i don't feel like 10k sp is going to turn EVE into Hello Kitty Online, or worse, WoW.
Safe your outrageous behaviour for the **** that will actually kill EVE, this however is none of it.

You could get the same SP per day by plugging in +5 imps over flying an empty clone.
Do you fly with +5 imps in nullsec pvp, because it is mandatory so you don't fall off the slope?
No you don't because it is inconvenient for you.
Thus, if you had to abandon your daily routine just to get "some SP", you won't do it. But this SP here is easy, for some people that want to get the maximum sp gains, they will do it, just like they would plug in +5s. Others, like me, are sitting at a farily big pile of SP on their chars and are even stripping them from SP. On this char, i have no real desire to farm skillpoints all day erry day. So i won't do it actively. If i happen to collect some, fine. Maybe i'll put them to use. But i don't feel the urge to do space chores just so i can keep playing EVE.

Also, keep in mind, your current SP gains are not going away. This is not some **** where you are REQUIRED to grind in order to advance in the game.

actually, sp as a reward is a bigger issue than adding daily rewards in itself.

the problem is, a reward like SP that can't be obtained by other means creates a situation where you get punished for not logging in, rather than rewarded for logging in.

10m isk instead? nobody would really care if they miss it. they can grind for another 5 mins another day.

of course, you could always, and probably will, argue that's not an issue with skill injectors and i'll partially agree. you can make it up with skill injectors - but now you're just shafting every dedicated player that has been playing for more than like 2 months, due to the diminishing returns on injectors. that means that the punishment for not logging in is harsher for those of us that has supported ccp for the longest.

it's like ccp didn't really put much thought in to how this would affect anything. it's like now they have the precedent {for lack of a better term} to dish out SP here there and everywhere they feel that they must shoehorn it in to everything regardless of how much of a dumb idea it will be.

agreed, if they were giving out geckos or something that you can't obtain any other way you'd have the same problem.

if done right daily rewards could be good.

here, let me give you an example. call it 10m isk instead of 10k sp.

what happens if i miss a day's SP reward? gone forever, no way to get that back.
what happens if i miss a day's isk reward? nbd, just grind for 5 more mins tomorrow.

what happens if the reward is only 10m? it's still worth doing, 10m for such a trivial task is a great isk:time:effort thing.

you still get rewarded for doing it, but you're not going to feel punished if you don't.



alternatively, just making it a weekly thing for a bigger reward/more effort would also solve the issue of people having to try and shoehorn it in to their lives at inconvenient times because of the dumb 22hr mechanic rather than "reset at dt" style reset mechanic.

/Thread

It's interesting to see how the feedback in this thread comes from people who don't PvE. And this makes sense, since PvErs are a quiet crowd.

CCP would have been better off just releasing this with a one-liner at the patch notes for Citadel. With this thread, they just got the whole nine yards of angry PvPrs and zero feedback from PvErs...

On a side note since CCP is providing a consumption behaviour mechanic; will there be option for tools to allow responsibly platy?like a set table timer that will let me know my game time I set is over and that my client will be shutting down in 30 mins, 15, 10 ... Also give me a snooze button that gives me a deminishing time to extend play. Though I can log in again to start a new secession.

"Dailies" will mutate in very bad direction. You are warned CCP, you are...

Great CCP! support this 100%
people saying the SP comes from nowhere are whack, the SP is created as Isk/Lp from an activity, Eve needs activity, needs players login and undocking and doing sh*t, just merely using your credit card to sub, queue and never login til 6-7 months after is not fun for the population, most of the people that were against the "pay-to-win" injectors are now angry because of daily stuff to do, guess the most Eve action you see is talkin sh*t in the forums

the same people that say that Eve is not about SP but real skill are the ones that condemn this kind of stuff from CCP, simply whiners that do no good to the game or the company bottom line. They say it will turn Eve into a grind/etc while CCP are expressing they are gonna see how the player base acts on this. I hope CCP does the same as with injectors, which is not paying attention to the whiners and debbiedowners of the forums.

CCP keep rockin'

I think this is great idea.

Would reward those who do something.

I don't log in every day, I simply do not have the time every day to sit down at a PC to play a game. I have things I need to do, people to see, things to wash, food to eat and so on. People only spending time in a game at the weekend is a very real thing.

Just a little quote your own devblog:



https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/skill-trading-in-new-eden/

It is really easy to understand, like in any and every other game that has dailies - If you don't log in every day - YOU DON"T GET THEM.

Literally the worse idea CCP has ever had.
SP rewards on anything is a bad idea.

People who PVE don't interact with others.

They are irrelevant to the content creation of this game and only steer away from the core of what eve is.

Grind grind oh look a red, lets dock up for a week just in case.

I do not look forward to logging in 30 characters every day to not miss out on anything.
I know full well I wont actually do it but this is still terrible.

Since personally it won't affect me if i log on all my toons or not, as i simply can't every day, i will live my eve life as usual.

And most others will do as well, since it won't affect anyone really. Of course there will be those, that now try to be online every day and will maybe accomplish that for a week, or maybe 2 or maybe even a month. But then they will stop and they will not care at all and will go back to their usual activity.

The people that do them, will have some SP to well train some stuff faster, some alts that are not training can now train something from time to time, without buying a PLEX.

But i find it a bit funny though, all the reactions.

When the servers are down, ppl yell for SP after 5min ... not the majority, but nobody thinks SP for that would be bad at the end ... and will at least say or think "no need for SP, but would be cool if we get it".

Last time we received 200.000 SP for some hours the servers were down. Also the people that had actually not even time to log in, since they were at work, had family ... well the usual stuff. Nobody!!!! went to CCP and said "oh please we don't want that SP, please take it back." That was SP from nowhere, same as 20x those daily opportunities for ... not even beeing able to show activity at all.

Same goes to the skill injectors ... first we tried to stop it, now we know it's there, we accept it, we don't take it, or ppl who take it, take them ... but it did not change our way of life in eve.

Daily opportunites won't either.

So... I bet we will have gankers hanging out in the belts, waiting for alts in bling ships to come for their daily rat. And while they wait, they can play games with people in insufficiently shiny ships, by racing them to any NPC spawn and shooting it before they get a chance. Some random idiot will probably even codify this as game philosophy.

And when newbies get trolled for their tears in the belts - let them whittle down the NPC to hull slowly, then one-shot the NPC before they can finish, repeat every time they try, and follow them from belt to belt - CCP will probably install some "shooting gallery" belts with special rules in the newbie systems.

Dumb ideas just keep on giving...

News flash: DAILIES are not required! If you feel that you are being forced to acquire an additional 4million skill points (total gained during the year) by doing dailies your whole argument is asinine!

It's optional! Just like acquiring plex, extractors, etc.

Disadvantage? Man if only I heard about this game in 2005 and not just recently.... Man I would have so many SP. lol

This argument is flawed. I will retire from reading this thread any further.

Great idea!
+1 Like
Hope, that CCP's saw this suggestion.

The first 15 or so pages of this had no decent critique against the idea. What's the issue now?

SP is being "created out of nowhere"? So what? Checked out the retention claims? Ready to imply that SP has nothing to do with retention even though the mechanic keeps getting patched?

It's "forced"? If SP is so super that missing just a little makes players feel awful, how do fresh subs feel?

After thinking about this a couple days, I think I can give some feedback.

This should diminish over time, perhaps at the same rate that skill injectors' effectiveness does. I would also be all for having the cooldown timer apply per account, rather than letting every single character slot on every single account do this every day.

Here's my justification:

If it takes you 2 minutes to log in, find and kill an NPC, and log out, that's circa 200 million ISK per hour of returns you're getting during those 2 minutes. If you have 2 or 3 accounts, you are strongly incentivized to doing this every single day on all 6, 9... 12? characters. That's the natural course to take when min-maxing, and it's not fun gameplay. It just isn't. How could it be? It's mostly logging in and out and warping, and it's about as boring as gameplay can possibly get outside of watching ice miners cycle.

Now, I'm not totally against this idea. It's fantastic for new players: that's like three hours of training time a day ez. It's also good for older players: having other slots on your accounts, you can give them that bonus sp and dump that sp into basic skills like industrials, scanning, trade, touchplanet, etc. But being strongly incentivized to do this on every single character on your account, every day, from the very beginning, is gonna grow old pretty darn fast.

For me the main problem is that there no variety. Instead of having exactly one way of getting the bonus SP (and a way that's far to easy) it would be better if several more complicated options to get bonus SP where implemented.

again

I would agree if ccp replaced skilling over time completely with SP grinding through dailies, weeklies etc. .. That would be the overkill

We need to remove the "it's fantastic for newbies" aspect from the discussion.

It simply is not.

What is fantastic for newbies is gaining more SP faster, somehow, because EVE is just about the worst game I have ever seen concerning locking away content from new players.

But that does not mean that a particular method of giving nebwies more SP faster is any good. There will be good ways and bad ways of doing that.

And this proposal by CCP is a really dumb way of doing it.

I understand very much the frustration of newbies with the skill queue, and how they will clutch at anything that might deliver some more SP to them. I'm still at that stage myself...

But this desperate craving for SP should not cloud one's judgement concerning the means by which the SP is offered.

If some newbie (or for that matter vet) wants to argue that logging in daily to find a belt rat to pop is their idea of getting engaged with EVE, then fine - that is the discussion we should be having.

But we should not be discussing how it would be good for newbies to get more SP. That's no excuse for introducing this poor mechanism to EVE.

along with making content people want to log in for, rather than bribing them with SP. lets not get too crazy, though. we're getting daily quests anyway.

They change the definition of "time to play" from ~1 hour to ~20 minutes. That could be useful to me on certain occasions, and to some people also will make sense to make a quickie for 10,000 SP. And in any circunstances it makes PvE more rewarding for the same unfun.

More players logged on is more of a potential fleet. End of discussion.

yeah sure because nobody really cares about a fleet "i just logged on to do my daily then going out, sorry"

Honestly I'm on the fence about this..

Personally, I don't like the pressure to log in daily.. I'd much rather see this as a weekly thing that requires more effort, but also gives more reward..

Assuming it's going to be implemented..

Like every 6 days you log on and kill X NPC ships OR player ships, OR mine X ore (Not a checklist, just alternatives for those who don't partake in PVE)

And once that is done you get X free SP (say 50k) It's just like the dailies, only the pressure is to log on weekly and put a little effort in, not daily find a random anomaly, warp in, kill one ship, dock up and log out..

I originally thought this was a terrible idea, this has no place in Eve etc. agreeing with many in the thread. Over the past few days my opinion has changed.

After watching various streams lately, Spectre fleet, Boat, Zarvox to name a few, and how much fun Eve can be when you hit low sec and null. This is what Eve is about and I started to wonder exactly how many new people that try the game actually stick around long enough to experience any of it. Would this be the carrot that gets newer players to stick around long enough to experience the better parts of the game? I think it could well be.

Eve is a wonderful game, people just don't get the chance to see its full potential and that's a shame.

This is not only about new players, we all have 3 capsuleers per account and 2 of them are rarely used other than for afk activities. With Eve having one of the best character creations out there, it seems such a waste. This would allow us to have more fun with our other 2, rather than see them rot away in some Captain Quarters.

Dailies are horrible, but as far as being rewarded for these, there is no game out there than offers a more valuable reward. The positives to this new feature heavily outweigh the negatives.
People arguing about how unfair it is if they can't login every day etc. I understand but would you rather see 20k online when you do log in, or potentially 40k+?

And that is exactly why this new feature could help those players that never leave high sec, actually gain a few skill points in the other capsuleers, experiment with other aspects of the game and not care about getting them blown up.

As said, I hated this idea at first, but I only see positives with very little negatives.

It absolutely should. SP is quite obviously the whole reason for its announcement.

There's no problem with rewarding log-on behavior either. It would exist automatically without SP, as players would start a production queue or check out a fresh market, increasing the amount of potential trade hubs and combat activities. Welcome to logic.

Are they? And why are you speaking for all other players, when you only know the opinion of a minorty on forums?

I am generally quite possitive about the changes CCP has done the last years, but with this I have this nagging feeling that the motive behind is more sinister. The claim is more will log in, but it will be only briefly to get the SP, defating its purpose. Dailies and weeklies made me quit SWTOR, as I in the end hated logging in just to repeat the same **** I did every day. So as this does not have the wanted affect, let us then look at what is does do.... it injects quite a lot of SP into the system. That is convinient just after SP trading was implemented. You can create 6 extra injectors per year per char. that is potentially (In an extreme best case scenario) 18 extra extractors bought from CCP for each account. Nice way to make money, it will not get more people in space for longer periods of time though.

..Quite the claim. Fortunately for game development, more players logged in simultaneously is more on TS and more ready to do something interesting.


It's odd that a single and basically-immediate action can inspire such claims like "it's not a sandbox game anymore". The ludicrousness is argumentatively self-defeating.

If there's no suggested alternative for such a simple action and such an effective reward (including getting players undocked), there's surely no reason to post.

Enjoy.

Yet, the net whole is more players online. That's neat -- the game progression being mostly offline is an absolutely awful design for an MMO, especially that with a deep economy, and even more because of the limitations it puts on options (and thus interest). Players should be logging in and doing ******* spreadsheets because they know it makes them more money to reprocess X and produce Y than farming PvE anoms (and AFK!). This is min-maxing and it's mostly what video games / RPGs are. Digressing, if SP is supposed to be a thing in this progression of the game's development, players are where "it's" at.

This whole idea of a single rat encounter giving 10k SP making all of EVE Online some forced experience is complete drivel. Can it please stop.

Love, making minigames for WIS, Drifter gameplay being fulfilling and impacting, etc. -- foremost, aren't features to improve retention and the PCU. Just as well, they aren't as simple as "does X, gets SP". This is, and it's a worthy feature because of its benefits.

"There is nothing wrong with players being able to play without logging in."

If the player can't play, why should they be rewarded? If the player can play, why shouldn't they be? If the player has enough patience for the SP system, they surely have enough to play the game when they can for whatever amount of progression. It would plausibly be much less than the 20y of queues.

Injectors have pushed real money into the SP equation more than ever, so it's not even about whether or not a player can play.. unless they're poor. Isn't being rewarded SP for activities exactly the same as the game is now except with more options? That player's not at work making real money, nor grinding for ISK, but is still being rewarded for playing the game / being part of the action. Those who can't play aren't losing anything, just missing out. Yet the point remains, if SP is that much of a determiner for enjoyment of the game, there's no reason for it to exist. All the complaints here about missing out on some 10k SP should be talking about how new characters are missing out on 10 or 50 or 100M SP, with the same amount of empathy. It's the same feeling. What makes veterans missing 10k SP any more relevant than newbies quitting the game because every niche they are interested in has a 5M SP training queue? Nothing. Welcome to the silence that is the SP discussion.

I understand the concept and who wouldn't want the bonus?

But what I meant, or intended to mean was that knowing CCP (looking at skill injectors and the heaps and heaps of negative feedback that CCP then turned around and said was positive) they will implement it regardless, So with that in mind, I was just trying to think of less awful ways to go about this..

Feeling the pressure to spend 5 minutes once every 22 hours vs feeling the pressure to spend 20 min every weekend is very different..
And I for one - assuming this feature will be implemented regardless of what the community says - would rather spend 20 min every 6 days rather than 5 minutes every day, Some days we just don't want to, or don't have time, or can't play. That makes most of us (I assume) feel like we are missing out.
Not having time/ability/want to spend 20 min every 6 days is much harder to justify.



I don't see a problem supporting log on behavior, I would just rather see it weekly than daily. Or even monthly.. That way you can spread the task out over a longer time.

With a daily reward for killing a single NPC people are ABSOLUTELY going to log on, grab any old frigate, find the nearest anomaly, warp in, kill a single ship, grab the reward, dock back up and log out.

With a bigger task it might actually encourage teaming up.

For example, say the reward is over the month, but requires you to kill 500 NPC ships. It's pretty easy to kill 500 NPC's in a month, but say you have a friend online and you both have yet to complete your monthly bonus.

So you fleet up and run around doing anomalies or missions or belt rats together, each ship counting towards both of your rewards, it would make getting the bonus more fun in my eyes.

As it is, the announcement is for taking out a single rat for a reward of 10k SP. The relevance of AFK FCing seems minimal. More players logging on to do their task is more characters to FC. The equation is obvious, so what exactly is the point being made?


There are no metrics for this and no reason for such a claim. If it's to benefit new players (obviously -- it's 10k SP), what's to say that there's established a "log-off automatically" mentality.. Nothing. They're online and getting experience. That's what the company believes retention comes from.

They've stated the same for grouping, so it's within reason to bet on them planning that as well. Yet, the announced version is the most direct method of getting players online and undocked (and retained by lowering that queue -- interesting correlation).

So, if you have not enough time to play Eve, why the **** would you want to be treated like taking it ?

think of the newbie

Hence why I suggested that there should be far more ways to receive the reward than just PVE. be it kill X number of players, mine X number of ore units or complete x number of scans. You should be able to get the reward doing whatever it is you enjoy doing in this game. Limiting it to PVE, even if the task is trivial is just plain dumb.

Daily I won't bother, only casual player, but it you add weelkly and more challenging I might do it.

40+ pages.

As has been stated, there are tons of other features that need cleaned up, that are more important than a daily reward program for logging on.

But, if i have read enough, the consent is! WE DO NOT WANT DAILIES. This is EVE, not WoW or any other grind based MMO.
So please, rethink this...

I know the OP was the stepping stone to more features built on this one. But, as has been stated, we have tons of features already that are half ***ed and not complete.

Put more man power on the Ghost fitting window, redoing the PVE combat experiences, being able to swap toons without having to quit the game.

xoxo

SP Progression happens offline, yet game progression certainly happens online (or at least online in the meta sense). Eve progression is a hard concept to grasp for most newbies, progression depends solely upon what goal you set yourself and not grinding towards some arbitrary level cap.

I could probably accept if they rewarded ISK for these dailies, if they really wanted to make EVE more like WoW. But certainly not SP.

Welcome to the End.

It was fun while it lasted.

55 posts you made already in this thread, and they're becoming increasingly illegible. Maybe it's time for a break?

While funny, I'd like to point out how counter productive this is. EVERY time there is a change (good or bad) people start talking about the end of EVE and "minus a million accounts!!" and such. Eventually it has a 'crying wolf' affect on people, especially CCP.

Right now Rise and Co. are probably sitting back thinking "hmm, usual end of the world/game hurf blurf, that must mean the idea is fine". This is why I'm careful to say that a change is bad on it's one merits but it probably won't kill the game, like skill trading (which I continue to oppose).

Anger is natural but it doesn't serve to change the minds of the powers that be. Reason does (sometimes lol).

The only question I'm interested in is how they will adjust the number of SP awarded per day. I see it as a matter of balance at this point.

It's not a stretch of the imagination to understand the benefit of awarding SP for kills eventually. Based on material costs perhaps. In that scenario, value for PLEX kills wouldn't increase the SP reward. Seems like a good measure of contributing to game activity.

Maybe the SP reward could be set by a 75% reduction of benefit compared to Injectors, so for killing an injector's going rate you get 25% of the highest SP tier (150k SP) which would be 30k or so.

This proposed SP reward for killing one NPC is very high, balanced only by the daily limit of 1. In terms of value killed vs SP it's ridiculous.

Those players who accepted the logic that SP in Injectors was earned by someone might agree that SP awarded for kills is ok when it is a result of removing value from the game through destruction.

Goblin had a good system where he paid out based on the percent damage on a killmail.

SP rewarded would need to be a rolling figure based on the trading price of PLEX.

Considering that SP and by extension Injectors are the crack cocaine of EVE I don't see this type of manipulation being possible. Local manipulation was solved with Forex, and the Greater EVE Market Cabal is only so good at manipulation either. The group you're imagining would need more market pull and coordination than anyone in EVE ever.

CCP you are probably going to implement this, no matter how much negative feedback you get.

However, before you do I ask you to consider this from the persective of new players ( who I belive this is aimed at ).


The thrill and lure of eve is not from quicker skill progression or shooting a predetermined rat to get a daily gift.


Eve is a universe. A complex one and a dangerous one.

The sense of achievement comes from accomplishing real goals in this universe:


The first trip into lawless space...

The shakes you get in your first pvp fight...

The sense of overwhelming incredulity as you make your first solo kill...

Venturing into a wormhole that says "deadly"...


If anything, new kids should be rewarded with "skills" for hitting these amazing life stages.

Not for undocking to kill some random hisec NPC.


Make eve better. Make the beginning of the game mean something.

As someone with 130m sp I support this. I do believe that maybe the rewards could be banked over a 3 day period and some of the requirements could be modified to make the act of obtaining the SP more dangerous. But over all the ability to actually be rewarded for activity (which is apparently casual?) is not bad as long as it does not become main stay. It will encourage more interaction and allow new players to feel like their activity has slightly more value.

The only issue I really see with this is the compulsive need for min maxers to log on daily even when they do not want to. Otherwise I see no issue - it is just another incentive. In regards to the argument of "making sp out of nowhere" - well; whenever a skill injector is used it can possible destroy up 400k SP into thin air.

Most of the negativity with this seems to just be a twitch reaction of "ermg its a daily from WoW".

Sure - but you get rewarded regardless for being logged out. You could also hypothetically run +5's for that entire period while skilling up. Where as me as an active player might not have that luxury as I would be at more total risk. So if I come into the game and actively contribute daily - as I currently do. Why not? You aren't losing anything.

I don't want you to stop getting SP for being logged off - but what is wrong with providing a bit more acceleration for people who do actually engage in game? The great thing about this game is I can advance while logged off - but at the same time this is not a bad incentive. Forcing people out into the world will only lead to more interaction in one form or another.

For example if you are a lowsec pirate? Well - you want your SP so you warp to a belt to get it. Now you are engaged in a fight with other players because they saw you warp there.

Then your lack of logic and reasoning has disqualified you from being a part of this conversation, and all your arguments from being ever remotely relevant to anything ever.

Someone on the other thread described this as "carrot on a stick". I like that. Chase the carrot, or you get the stick.

actually it's chase the carrot or you get the no carrot.

I forego training implants in my PVP characters, same thing.

wat

I can not pvp without logging in too

scratch that, what I should say is you've lost me, and I think anyone else too.

I'll just pretend my goal was to misconstrue the discussion and that I've succeeded.

and it will be a whole new world.

I just want to share some basic advice going forward. CCP will do what they want. Assuming that is true, what's important as an individual player is making sure you get over the feelings and try to make best with how it changes things.

Just go with it.

Their ability to give levelheaded explanations about the motivations behind changes left with Soundwave

As far as I know Falcon is still kicking. He's okay and he has that older brother type of thing going on but he's still not how Soundwave used to be, very forthcoming especially in person.

Progression for the majority of demographics is bigger and better stuff. If it seems so interesting, look it up; but trying to claim, in a situation where SP is patched in every other expansion, that there's no problem is just baseless.

It's only "bigger and better" because that's how the game generally sets up progression rewards. Bigger ships are more effective at making ISK, and ordinarily at engaging multiple targets (because there's more of a chance they're smaller and weaker).

If that's juvenile, then so is this game.

The point is to experience the whole game..

This really needs to be expanded to all forms of professions, and not be restricted to warping to a belt, killing a rat and logging off. All of the other choices should be just as easy as shooting a belt rat.

A few examples...
-Scanning any signature to 100%
-Put 1,000,000 isk worth of stuff on the market
-Completing a cycle on a mining laser
-Completing any mission
-Start or complete, research or production on a blueprint
etc

I kind of thought it was a good point, perhaps the daily bonus could cycle between different tasks.

Everyone's fixated on the 10k SP for shooting a rat-numbers, the tedium of a stupid daily.
This is one of the things they would have to do to make F2P EVE. If they add more do-this-for-SP tasks, it will become a functional alternative to queueing up skills.

The next logical steps are ye olde XP "boosters" and making subscription optional.

If this happened few years ago, I would be excited about it. But nowadays I rarely shoot NPCs and most of my income comes from station trading and T2 manufacturing on my alt. I don't mind the game giving bonus SP to active players, but I mind when a supposedly sandbox game tells them what they should do to receive those SP. Either make sure that different ingame activities are rewarded or don't introduce this at all.

With EVE getting older and older and the distance between eager, hyper-active newbies and the average veteran player growing, I think it makes sense to start rewarding activity in this way, even if it obviously is a step closer to WoW-like grinding games.

However, maybe it would be better to not give the reward for just any NPC... as proposed, it will be enough to warp into a hisec belt and shoot a 10k rat, which takes 2 minutes and poses zero risk. How about the reward is only triggered if the NPC was killed in low or null sec? Or only half the reward for hisec. This way new players are encouraged to leave hisec earlier and players in general have to take a minimum of risk for the reward.

....

If this has to be implemented, then I'd rather go with something along the lines above. Especially as the goal is to try and encourage people to log in regularly (rather than daily).

I would also be in favor of - say - only making it effective for players with under 10M SP (that's roughly 6 months in the game and it should be enough time for someone to find their feet - if they aren't logging in regularly at that point you've either already lost them, their corp situation isn't that interesting or they are not particularly inclined to log in regularly.

To my mind this whole thing sounds rather manipulative and by extension disrespectful to your customer base.

The problem is why you did it.

I can imagine the meeting:
Random Dev: "Boss, we noticed that people who log in every day have 66.6% higher chance of subscribing"
Boss: "Let's make them all log in at least once a day so that more people pay"

This is insane. Yes, people who log in a lot will pay for the game. It is not because they log in, it's because they LIKE IT. And as the result of liking it they both log in frequently and pay.

You want people to log in and pay for the game - make it more likable, don't bribe players with SP just to raise some meaningless statistic.

make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30

so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it

I like this. Gives a reward for activity without players "losing" anything if they can't log in for a few days.

Also, there should be counters and rewards for PvP (aggression/weapon timer maybe), and industry (start PI cycle, use BP, maybe complete contract or sell stuff). Maybe exploration as well (hack a can).

True. But suppose all someone does is mining and industry. Or PvP...

i love this idea. Its great for contrant generation. I'd like to see in the future, larger sp awards by sec status, therefor increasing the flow of players venturing into low and null for the promise of extra SP, thus creating a target rich environment! I think anything that helps players train to their goals faster is only going to make them log in more, spend more $$ (which im sure is part of CCP's motive) and best of all UNDOCK MORE! i saw someone mention in an earlier post a different reward for veterans. This i think would be a good idea as there does come a point where sp loses its value to a player. Be it a new booster that allows certIan items to be fit to ships for a short amount of time (cov ops cloak on a battleship) or something like that! just spit balling here. When you get to where I am in game, youre right in that zone where youre less inclined to log in every day as your queue is training that 57 day skill so you know you cant do anyhting new yet. I hope ccp expands on this. injectors have made things really interesting in eve again and I think this stands to do it even more. A lot of people are acting like this is going to train race x battleship to 5 overnight. this is not that. i think this is going to make for some amazingly fun fights

Well I meant x and y, but x or y is probably better.

Solution. You can only collect the daily rewards if you have less than 5,500,000 million skill points on that character.


cb

Dailies are not punishing. You get the reward for the one you do and that's where it ends. You don't lose anything for not logging. The daily idea is wrong for something completely different. The fact that people could not get 100% of the potential benefit should not be an issue for anyone. The player base here is just full of hypocrisy and feel 100% entitled to get 100% return of any opportunity if it involve SP.

If people didn't feel entitled to getting it all, they would not be unhappy about potentially missing some because they work. They FEEL penalized because they think they SHOULD get it all when it reality, they would be getting 100% of the reward they deserve by fulfilling the requirement as many time as they can.

Start feeling penalized when they remove stuff from you if you don't do something, not when they don't give you something if you didn't do the required action.

That does not mean you were penalized for failing the requirement of having an active training queue and an skill queued. Just that CCP wanted us to more easily fulfill one of those requirement.

make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30

so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it


this would be a way to adapt dailies to fit your game rather than just copy past and jam it in

Why should your inactivity be equal to someone actively playing the game?

Atypically, how much you put into a game is what you get out of it.

Technically, you are not losing skill points, you are gaining extra. Also the window is said to be 22 hours. so it's technically any time after the 22 hour window opens.

And yes, you are lazy. Maybe it should be adjusted to once a week, but still your way of gamming promotes "log in to adjust skill queues and log off. I'm getting the same SP as all those people actively playing".

It's also true for board games... Some 5k go player who don't play much won't progress as fast as some other who is actively playing.

Well, when it's about Go, Chess, Checkers, Backgammon, ... the more you play, the stronger you get... But also, the stronger you get, the more effort it'll require to continue to get stronger...

At first, you can learn much by just watching some games and solving problems... but when your level increases, it'll require more and more active playing to get stronger.


And even when it's about learning things, the more you progress, the more EFFORT you'll need... just reading lazily won't get you much anymore...

The leaning curve is not only about time, it's also about effort put in the task...


And it's definitively *NOT* a matter of staying idle a longer time...

I imagine your organization as a bunch of bodiless voices having no body in the game.

Usually when I help people out, i'm not just sitting on team speak in the forums (I leave the forum work when I'm out mining, hoping someone shows up so I can re-ship and have some fun).

No. Largely because no such grind exists.

It would still be a chore but at least you could do it at your leisure.

The more I think about this the more it feels like it's meant to pave the way for some kind of f2p redesign of the game.

- get rid of the attribute enhancers in the process (no more fear to lose those shiny implants, that would kick me in the next badass ship 3 days earlier)
- instead of unallocated sp -> attributes enhanced
- scale the enhancement to the sp of the account (not character), where newer players (up to 10m sp?) get the attributes enhanced by +5 and the older / vets only +3 (or alike scaling)
- larger timescale than daily (donGÇÖt make it a job, as i already have one irl), maybe once in a month
- reuse your guristas hunt code (one in a month ingame mail GÇPthe empire is in need of your help, bash the badass NPCGÇÖs GǪ bla blaGÇ£ / accept / updated neocom)

Hand a completely new player 1000 skill injectors and 100b. He will blow it all against experienced players and barely kill anyone.

Give a 10 year old bittervet a new completely empty account. He will dunk people with a t1 frigate and III skills.

This is the unique thing about EVE. Skillpoints in the game don't guarantee you a win or loss as in WoW or other themepark games. The actual skill you level up when playing is in your own head, not on CCP servers. And we don't need dailies to change that.

Except that EVERY SINGLE TIME there are talks about alternative ways to get SP, whichever they are, you see the same old players that keep saying that SP are not relevant get all nuclear against it...

So, it's not only about the dailies... the same happenned for every single other options...

Which means that either you're hypocritical and SP really does matter or you're quite inconsistent...

The thing about the daily complaint: I've played daily games, it sucks, and I would never want to see this in eve. But, this isn't really dailies. It just rewards people for doing what they normally do, assuming people don't never kill rats. For this reason, I would like it to be a reward for industry or PvP or Rats.

my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec

If you make it 7 activities over the course of a week it not only doesnt help CCP's log in numbers but also means the players who log in once a week have to spend that one day doing these 7 silly tasks to get their reward rather than doing what they want.

make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30

so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it


this would be a way to adapt dailies to fit your game rather than just copy past and jam it in

To be compleatly honest most of us do not care if the game suddenly get more people logging in, if they not provide content and interact with the rest of us. Sure some will logg in with this as a reason and then stay on and do some other stuff. The main bulk of the allready active players will feel forced to spend time on this kind of pointless gameplay and have less time over for interacting with the rest of us.


The game have a couple of mecanics that pushes people to log AND interact with the rest of us without feeling forced like this.

Some examples would be:

--- PvP ---
Forming for timers in wars.


--- Industry ---
Keep your production lines full.

Getting your auctions for teams and move to where good ones land... ops you removed a great one, smart move.


--- Market ---
Updating your orders.

Refill empty orders.

---

This kind of stimulation is a integrated part of the game and the playerbase will not complain. You do not feel that your freedom is taken from you. It is tied to a path you chose to take.

Stuff that make us not want to log in is a stagnant game. Capsuleers are working hard right now to remove the biggest reason to this. First after the downfall of a certan entety, can we hope for a more active and intresting game.

The rat kill is the silliest part of this. They already know very much about the 'Leveling a Raven' syndrome, so why are they feeding it?

Joining player corp and staying in it for lengths of time? Now that is something that generates content, and gets people drawn into the game and its goings on.

Don't feed the Raven.

Care to read that line again? :P

Thanks for the laugh.

Not really. It's more the amount of different mechanics that is challenging for a new player. And while Blizzard has been abolishing game mechanics over time to reduce complexity, CCP went the other way.

Well, hard to do that with this kind of feature.

This post (which I've already linked once, but having read the entire thread, it really is the most coherent and cogent) already said everything really necessary (especially the bit where she points out that RiseGÇÖs funny ideas about what we all should be doing in New Eden are "utterly and completely irrelevant" ), but GÇô now that it's evening and I've had a glass of wine or two GÇô where the hell has CCP's artistic integrity gone these days? Game releases of Eve Online used to be about testing and extending the limits of the sandbox, providing challenging new things to do, more complexity to master, new reasons to HTFU. Eve was a work of art, with CCP creating an increasingly sophisticated dystopian image of a future society and letting it play out in the interactions of players with the environment and with each other. There was an artistic concept, a vision behind it all.

To judge by his recent ideas, that vision doesn't interest Rise in the slightest. In fact, I doubt he has ever understood it. This new "improvement" is like a painter deciding to offer people $5 to look at his painting. If the painting was at all good, people would look at it without having to be given special incentives. But that's all beyond Rise. All he can imagine is offering carrots. It will make more people log in each day, so it must be good, right? In my view that's an admission of total intellectual bankrupcy.

In any case, my sub comes up for renewal in the summer. Or not. Currently more likely not.

This whole thing will end in XP/SP grind soon. One step at a time. First SP trading, now rewards for logging. Next step xp boost for playing at least 3 hours.
Let's face it. Players are creating content in sandbox (if EvE is still sandbox?). If they are not online because they passively gaining XP/SP it's bad for the business.
Problem is if game is not entertaning there is not enough high reward to encourage players to log in.

Rise do you really think giving 3 650 000 SP = 4 900 000 000 ISK at current prices to be hardcore gameplay? Undock, warp to anomaly, shoot rat, dock.
If you think this is good proposal I don't want to know what you guys baking with tribute system...

The problem is that players DON'T CREATE content...

Some player groupe organizing a PvP raid is no content...

New content is about
- new ships
- new structures
- new modules (or module changes)
- new game mechanics
- new missions
- new exploration sites
...

To have players creating content in a sandbox, you'd need to have people able to upload textures, 3D models, to create items, ... (a little like what you can find in "2nd life" or in the old MUSH/MUX games).

I think that new content (not only for high-level players/corps, but also for people ranging from the miner to the PvE solo'er) would be the best idea to get people login... Way better than dailies... Somehow, the only people who don't really care about content are the PvP'er... they only need targets... But EVE's mechanics are such that other people are required (else PvP'ers would fall short of ships/modules).

Mixing active and passive character development is not really a problem... As some older players already pointed, SP are not so important... But I think that there should really be enough way to get SP to be sure that people WON'T BE ABLE TO DO THEM ALL... If there is only one way, which only requires little time daily (or weekly,...), people may feel compelled to do it... If they are no way to do them all, people will do what they want... There may be some crazy people who will try to "optimize" by doing all of them... but they won't be the common case.

1 rat daily is not a bad idea... Miners can do it, explorer can do it, PvE'er can do it (they both already do it), PvP'er can do it, beginners and older players can do it, ... the only people which would have to get out of their ways are traders, industrialists and scammers...

But I think that there should be many other ways... why not include things like T2 research, jumping in at least X systems, starting at least X jobs (or having at least X different production task running), scanning X signatures and many other things... As I said, there should be enough of these to be sure that a single character can't do them all...

You wouldn't have to chase entosis nodes if the FW system was implemented in sov null.

The FW system has a proven track record. It works, and thousands of people engage in it willingly every day. There are no downsides to implementing it in null.

Then you have no idea what sandbox means. World War Bee is biggest player created content in months.

Is there a mechanism that will log off inactive players from the server? Like in D3, 15 minutes AFK and log off.

Please reconsider this idea Rise... Are you not noticing the amount of abuse you are likely to get at Fanfest next week should this idea not be scrapped?

Yeh I guess it does a bit :o (no hard feelings Rise... it's just a terribly thought out idea)

It clearly isn't well thought out, there wouldn't be 60+ pages of people saying "this idea is awful" and picking it to pieces.

Forcing people to login for an arbitrary task is stupid. If it was open to all sorts of content rather than being just shooting a red cross daily it would actually drive some gameplay. The idea as it stands achieves nothing but pissing off a large amount of the playerbase...

Same was with skill trading. Implemented.
Same will be with this.

Actually I would go further. Increased SP gain by logged players. Times are changing. Players are getting older, new blood don't come by broad stream, "Hardcore Rise" is thinking he's creating sandbox environment...

Sure but if you gain, let's say 10% more SP if are logged but without dailies is not that unacceptable imo. That's why I asked if there is a mechanism that's kicking AFK players. That way you promoting players that stay online and can do whatever they want and still don't punish unlogged (passive gaining system still an good option).
Core foundation is already changed. SP can be traded. CCP will push dailies anyway. I think we need to find compromise how to reward players that logging more often in other way than mindless PvE activity.
I don't like the course this game is going. I don't like SP trading. I hate dailies idea, but some devs are fixated on how many players are online.

10,000 skill points per toon per day. A skill injector gives 400,000 (on average) - so it's a skill injector per 40 days. One plex is worth about two skill injectors. So one plex per 80 days - call it three months.

So CCP are offering skill points to the value of four plexes, per year, per character - that's twelve plex per year per account - for doing daily, repetitive, grindy tasks.

Twelve plex per year is more than many of us can afford to turn down, which is the problem. If it was capped in some way - say, up to your first three million skillpoints - or less valuable - perhaps two or three plex per year - it wouldn't be an issue.

The rewards are too high to ignore, but cycling through all characters every day is work, not play.

Twelve plex per account per year for this? No. Sorry, no.

Putting an optional thing in the game is neither telling you what to do nor forcing you to play.

Ah, so we've gone from "I am being forced" to "well it doesn't matter if we're being forced or not". So you accept that you are not actually being forced to do anything, despite what you wrote previously.

There are lots of things in the game we can do optimally to gain the best results but we don't always do them because... we don't have to.

It's punishing me for not logging in every day. One of the core concepts of eve is that you can train SP at the same rate no matter how much time you have to play.

I thought we agreed they are not actually telling you how to play

Standings are *absolutely mandatory* to participate in trading at present (in any competitive way).

I don't flip PLEX often, but when I do it is in Dodixie (where I have outstanding standings). I would lose ISK on all of those transactions if I carried them out in Jita.

Same goes for Marauders and premium deadspace modules.

Level 5 missions say otherwise. Even so, I have over 7 standings on several characters and they only took 2-3 days each.

To be exact, it ended with Character Basar.
But then again, there was something before that.

If you earn ISK while logged off than whatever that is you're doing should be nerfed :p

I wouldn't say it's "earning ISK while logged off". The actual industry part is getting the materials and setting everything up and then selling it. The time to build is just a cap to regulate the production volume. Same goes for trading. It sound nice the think about it like "afk ISK" but that ISK is just the result of your logged in activity. You just get the money with a certain delay.
Like killing a rat, logging off and then getting the bounty.

That does not translate to "I need to go and kill a rat for more SP". If you choose to do nothing, literally nothing will change for you. You will still gain SP as fast as you were previously.

He already explained. The issue is the people who stopped login in daily because of the extended skill queue. Weekly rewards would do nothing to sort the issue.

This thread is full of people essentially complaining that they are hopeless addicts with no willpower to resist operant conditioning.

Anyone else getting feels that at Fanfest we will be getting EVE Garriso...*cough* Citadels with daily follower missions, spawning personal citadel mineral asteroids, fedo battles and salvage garden?

Ok joking but seriouslly CCP... I am getting worried a bit.

Please don't make the daily reward SP. That feels far too much like a 'login daily for an xp boost!' that you would expect from some lesser free-type mmo.

Actually Aurum reward is an interesting proposal. No ingame method of acquiring it so it would be valuable but not game breaking. Make a small amount of Aurum as the reward please. And make it based on Discovery so that everyone can participate without being forced into activities they don't want/can't do.

Why Skillpoints?
There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it.



but skill points can be sold for isk so the reason here is floored. Because would this not also **** up the market also?

Regardless of if the PCU issue is true, 5 minutes of login is not going to significantly add to the concurrent PCU which is the count that players get to see. It may affect the unique logins per day but that is a hidden statistic that only CCP can see how many Players, and Players is the important statistic not accounts, are logged in per day.
Daily kill one NPC quests do not add content to the game in a significant manner, and they do not add significant engagement for the player. And they go directly against the 'EVE doesn't have an SP grind' selling point, not to mention making fools of everyone who claimed that Sp injectors were not the start of a slippery slope, because this right here is the next part of the slippery slope mere months later.

I tried to think the goals of CCP and how to get there. So the idea is that player would think "I would like to have more SP, so what would I need to do?", but if one plays the game already with all of hes alts the reward should be more or less automatic.

Second goal is to get more players "active" in the sandbox so they can effect others or at least make it seem there is others in space too. At least personally seeing someone is undocking hauler and probably transporting some goods feels nice even if I'm not there to shoot him.

Idea 1, activity counter:

So, could we just track the activity? Basically if one is in space for 15-60 minutes (I don't take oppinion about the amount) and active. The active is counted from actions coming from the client e.g. warp to, aproach, lockj, shoto etc etc etc... At least for AT there was some technic to count actions per minute, thus if there is at least one aciton per minute for total of 60 minutes I would count that as active for 60 minutes. You could even make it so that specific actions count to it too e.g. killing a rat would count as 5 minutes of activity or selling 100m3 of items in market as 5 minutes too. But basic idea stands, one should be active e.g. 60 minutes per day.

This way it could also be balanced for weekend actives too, so every day system would add 60 minutes to the counter and when ever you get that to 0 you would get the reward for all of the additions (thus being active 7 hours on Saturday would cound for total of 70k SP). Of course with limit of 7 hours and 70k SP, thus being away for 2 weeks wouldn't count.


Idea 2, task pool:

Lets think these as agent missions, but real implementation sohuld count them automaticalle (so no need to click accept mission etc). Let's have more than 7 tasks to do. Few of them would be kill npc in different spaces (so one for wh, ns, hs and ls). So one would do one would kill npc in hisec. That would check that task completed with some reward. At any given time one can have max of 7 done tasks. So if you do 7 tasks today, you could complete any for that day.

When tasks is complete it would start timer of 20-24h to reopen that task. Thus you could repeat to kill npc in hisec daily. If there is one task that has timer running, second completed task would go to queue for refresh, thus if you would do 7 tasks, it would take around a week for you to do another 7 tasks.

So this would allow doing the same task daily for daily reward as same as current proposed system, but it would also make it possible to do 7 tasks in weekend for those that can't be there in weekdays.


conclusion:

So the basic design behind these both ideas is to make it possible to do your acitivity on smaller calendar days, but would require more activity from the player in those., but still keeping the total required activity same per day.

I would prefer the first as that should be easiest to balance in the end. It would also make it possible to just scout the eve to count as activity or being an hauler that just takes stuff from place A to B. If market gets counted well enough it should work for market traders too.

Any case I hope weget some day away from specific action to a lot of more actions.

Also I would create "what to do" page for people that they could look for things to do. Though I would it would be more or less the opportunities system, but maybe a extra tab with "opportunities that you haven't done in a while".

Well.. these are my thoughs I hope they help in some way.

Nothing is set in stone - favourite Seagull saying.
.

does daily opportunities will require specific ship and specific system to do the mission? or we can go in any ship and go kill some things in 0.4 systems? i.e i want to go with smartbomb battleship to asteroid belt and blast the rats in dehrokh (0.4)

why not give us also pvp opportunities , so we get certain task to kill another player ship and eventually his capsule thus could include suicide ganking


but i see problem with pvp opportunities you can kill your own alt but here is workaround you wont get the reward for killing own corporation members, for one of your other account/character so to claim reward you have to do valid pvp fight

The only difference here is, that the Dev blog, i was quoting, was 3 months ago, not years.
The Daily Quests are ready for deployment on Sisi. So, i guess, it took less than 3 months from the first idea to the finished feature?
If not, that would mean CCP Rise lied to us...

CCP, PLEASE RECONSIDER THIS!

[To Matthew Woodward, senior designer at EVE Online developer CCP, ['Sandbox'] is really hard to define, because it's so ingrained in what we do, that we know what it is, but it's hard to put into words," he tells Gamasutra.

But he offers up a pretty good definition anyhow. "Basically it's three things: being social, goal-driven and emergent -- making a game open, giving players control, essentially, and if you're making a multiplayer game, making it as social as possible, because that's why they're playing the game in the first place." ] http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/179811/EVE_Online_and_the_meaning_of_sandbox.php

What happened to the sandbox? What happened to the player driven universe? Didn't we learn from other MMOs how daily missions are bad? Look at WoW, they make playing the game a daily obligation, it makes you do stupid things like "killing a certain NPC" each 24 hours because if you don't others will have the advantage.

We have two problems here:
1 - CCP desire to make the game more noob friendly and appealing to generic MMO players. This alone would be the worst thing ever done to this game, the moment you **** up the game in order to appeal to a broader market like Sony did with Star Wars Galaxies, you're officially killing EVE.
2 - In doing so, you're implementing ****** dailies where the right thing to do (if you want to improve PvE and narrative) is to implement new lore and modern missions related to the NPC empires.

I understand that you may want to make it possible to new players gain SP in alternative ways like rich people can with money, but this is NOT the right way to do it and we all fu**ing know it.

NUKE IT FROM ORBIT!

Don't do this! Think of all the people with no self control who will be compelled to log in every day to do something they hate

How about any kind of timer, including Non-Capsuleer Log-Off Timer?

I actually kind of like the idea of promoting activity in Eve, but lets not limit it to only 1 type of game play.

I hate sounding like a broken record...but...

To be fair...

Training the skills to kill a random NPC rat is absolutely minimal. You can do it, with a bit of difficulty, in a civilian-fitted noobship. That's probably why they chose precisely this, it requires absolutely no training whatsoever to achieve. All it requires is docking in a station without a ship to get a noobship with a civilian gattling, and then undock and head to a belt.

Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right?

Right?

No, the daily cap was asked to be removed because Blizzard wasn't going to remove dailies, and you literally needed to do more dailies in one day that the daily cap allowed due to the OUTRAGEOUS quantity of dailies added in Mists of Pandaria.

PS- Nobody liked spending 2-4 hours a day/per character to get the "way too good to ignore" rewards so that they could keep up with raid progression.

I'm pretty sure, CCP Rise didn't know about this plans when he posted his devblog. This is different than the originally announced tribute system. Now he looks like an idiot, 50% because of this business decision and 50% because his team didn't come up with a better idea to increase PCU.

But I agree, hiding unpopular announcements in long threads or on reddit is a thing recently ... where is the devblog about the upcoming NPC trading fee increase and the "PvP tax"?

Well.... erm.... **** it. I'll take 10k free SP every day just for killing a belt rat in a noob ship.

Your are dense and that is the problem. Unless CCP start handing out punishment for not doing the activity, you will not be forced to do so. No matter how you feel about it, they haven't even hinted at any form of punishment so your argument of being punished is garbage but you can keep pushing it all you want. You don't get punished for being wrong here.

WoW - Sometime in the future I may be able to buy SP direct from Concord as apparently they have a stockpile of them - who knew

I look at this as a general SP increase per day/mo/yr for everyone in the game. Theoretically if everyone takes advantage the new system the gain is equal among all players. The end result being 3,650,000 SP more per year than we previously had.

In reality not everyone will be taking advantage the same though, some people are not able to log on every day. For this reason I think an account should store up more than one mission at a time. For example if you could have 7 total daily events saved up, it would be possible for someone who can only play over the weekend to still gain the same amount of SP as everyone else.

You might argue it doesn't need to be equal for everyone, ISK for example can be accumulated faster if you play more frequently. The difference here is that SP was essentially the same for everyone, with the exception of implants and min/maxing remaps everyone at a base level earns SP at the same rate. This change will make it so that is no longer the case.

Overall I like the idea of having more SP per year, this is in no way a bad thing. It's just important to have it balanced out for those who play casually vs every day.

That is an incorrect claim.

You are not loosing time, not in the literal sense. So that is a weird and wrong way to spin it. What is happening is you are not getting a bonus. Does it theoretically lead to the same effect as loosing time would, sure.

So I pay to train my alts SP up since 2008 and now you're giving away a few thousand SP per rat kill? Thanks CCP. I was hoping this was a joke. Terrible terrible terrible idea.

This seems like a nice perk for lower SP characters staying active each day. It won't make a huge impact for older characters and that's fine. 10k SP wont really make a difference much when you are already over 100kk.

I highly approve of this idea. Despite some people yelling about EVE becoming a modernized MMO, it gives incentive to players to login everyday. Despite it being a bit -too- simple to me, I feel it's still a great way to accelerate newer players who would desperately need those skill points, or a veteran player who is happy to chip away at that massive rock of a 10+ day train time.

I'd also like to focus on the 'modernization' thing, the training system needs something to help make it easier for newer players to attain skills for trying things in the game out, and I personally think this would be perfect in the long run to help bring in new blood.

Not at all. I play every day that I can, I just don't like to be told HOW to play.

If the daily were "go out and get podded", it would be a lot more interesting. That's something you don't want to bring +5s to, and the low-level implant market would go wheeeeee!

It's like some of the poster rightfully against this idea are also so triggered into a fit of hate they forget to use their brain to think for even a second how an EVE player would skirt around their proposed rule...

Have you ever stopped to consider maybe the meaningful game play decline is not because you introduces >24 hour training queues and more because the game "features" (aka jump fatigue, and fozzie sov) that people have been complaining about since their introduction? Seriously it's like you're trying to create more problems just in order to ignore your bigger **** ups..

I honestly have no idea why CCP seems to be soooo damn stupid and neglects to fix problems or just decides to ignore their customer base in favor of doing **** no body wants just because they can... NEWS FLASH CCP!! WE ARE YOUR CUSTOMERS! YOUR ONE JOB IS TO MAKE A GAME WE WANT TO PLAY. Creating "feature" that decrease that desire to play and then introducing "features" to force that play to cover up your failures is not only a terrible business plan, but utterly STUPID!

If people logged out and never logged back in over something as simple as this, can they be said to have been so invested in EVE Online in the first place? Is one change really all that is required for some people to quit and never look back?

I find that rather disheartening, but perhaps I am just too new to Eve online as a whole. Dust had a system where players were rewarded skillpoints depending on what they accomplish in-game. Why is it so wrong in the main EVE game but perfectly fine over there?

IGÇÖm just going to have to learn to take skill points less seriously, so that it doesnGÇÖt bother me when I miss out on these little GÇ£rewardsGÇ¥. Because IGÇÖll be damned if CCP is going to tell me how to play this game.

CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc

I feel this needs repeating.

Man I had this thought a while ago but sometime I really need to agree twice with you, like double-agree.

Also very, very much agree with Manic here, couldn't be said better.



EVERYONE QUOTE AND AGREE

any chance some one has the link to the other video made talking about why players feel so bad about this change? was a bit more scripted

maybe we can get them both seen by ccp

you mean this one?

First off all CCP wants to earn. For them more logins means more potential money. They are doing this game for some time now. It never attracted crowds. So they will implement mechnisms from other MMOs that will keep people to log on and maybe bring some new. PCU will grow, vets will leave, CCP will make money.

Doing my part

P.S. Nice vid

You meet rats on every roam at gates, or you warp into a belt while someone is on bio break. No problem and surely not a reason to skip a roam.

Actually the FC would probably just warp the whole fleet into a belt during the roam to shoot rats so everyone gets their daily SP boost.

So what's the difference in doing missions for SP every 20 hours ? and doing missions and getting isk then with that isk buying SP's ? i see the same thing.
We already have 3 months missions, they're called "ark missions"

So for ark missions we have to log in every 3 months ?

if I wanted to grind sp, I'd grind isk to buy injectors.

And this 'go kill a belt rat' think is completely the wrong way to go about doing something that's already inherently awful

If you MUST have a daily requirement for sp, have it be 'go agress another player in some way' which is a MUCH better way of doing this, it would get people engaging with one-other, even if it's only to game the system (lol rookie ship duels), that is then also ripe for 'shenanigans and tomfoolery'. WIN-WIN-WIN. CCP gets its desired daily log-ins for (reward), it makes the players (those without alts at least) engage with one another somehow, and it has a distinctly eve-flavoured twist to it compared to WoW.

I don't know about you but we are not going back to the USSR.

The devs who have planned this deserve every bit of bile directed at them for this abomination.
I hope people at fanfest will tell them exactly what they think of dailies. If its announced on stage I hope it
is accompanied by a large dose of booing.

I'm surprised that you are so sensitive (and dripping with sarcasm) when you've only been in EVE for one year longer than I have.

CCP is never going to go that far, since the MMOs that best survive on micro-transactions and free-to-play are those that are built around the concept.

Either way you look at it, these Dailies still have to be done by players in order for it to yield any skill-points, and there'd be no point in making the dailies give ISK instead because the entire game is already built around ISK and the overall economy (outside of the PVP aspect).

So what if they add Dailies to EVE Online? In the long run, the gains from the Dailies, even if you do them every day for the entire year, is minuscule compared to the amount of skill points generated by an active skill queue running for the same amount of time, especially one with 5+ implants (and a skill queue lined with skills requiring specific attributes that you max out said attributes of by re-arranging your skill queue).

It's pretty much icing on the cake of the training queue. It is nothing that will cause the game to implode upon itself.